tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post7060201044287153085..comments2024-01-30T08:47:44.544-08:00Comments on Rock Hall Monitors: Getting a grasp on 2018's nominees' merits.Philiphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08292012228944104037noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-802520856558615222017-12-13T16:25:14.466-08:002017-12-13T16:25:14.466-08:00Wow, both the most deserving and the least deservi...Wow, both the most deserving and the least deserving are getting in this year!Followerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10584710940928310564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-14139727224825547572017-11-21T21:22:14.872-08:002017-11-21T21:22:14.872-08:00Well, for the first time, you sure had a lot to sa...Well, for the first time, you sure had a lot to say, but that's totally cool! The one thing I wanted to add though: when I talk about the Zombies being short-lived, I mean they broke up before they could realize their full potential. In fact, when "Time Of The Season" charted in '69 and was tied to the hippie movement... the Zombies were already disbanded by that time, and had been long enough for the popularity of that song to be considered surprising. Whatever reunions they've had and touring playing the old songs... I don't count that. Their 2015 album "Still Got That Hunger" is a reunion effort, but that doesn't mean the band has a long, rich history. And Argent is Argent, not the Zombies. Argent can be nominated for the Hall at a later date, though I'd never vote for them. But the works of the band Argent are not subsumed under an induction or nomination of the Zombies, unless jointly nominated like Small/Faces were.Philiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08292012228944104037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-82321958061996801112017-11-21T21:12:25.512-08:002017-11-21T21:12:25.512-08:00Have to disagree about Cars being schlockier. And...Have to disagree about Cars being schlockier. And no, Bon Jovi's good work does not mitigate the fact that their music is the lowest common denominator, at least among those on this ballot.<br /><br />As far as MFN, true, I was only a toddler when it came out, but studying it, that song was one of many that blend into whole mess that was the congressional hearings of that era. That's not to take away from the achievement of Gay folks coming out bravely at the time, but Dire Straits' entire body of work isn't quite so affiliated with that movement as other artists.Philiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08292012228944104037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-45897835828371163342017-11-21T21:03:46.496-08:002017-11-21T21:03:46.496-08:00Well, much of what you list here has a lot to do w...Well, much of what you list here has a lot to do with the factor of "unquestionable music excellence," which can be described objectively to a slight degree, in terms of being artistic, but otherwise, what you describe is largely subjective, and falls under personal taste, imo.Philiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08292012228944104037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-55377529952173733892017-11-17T12:21:09.291-08:002017-11-17T12:21:09.291-08:00Comments, PT 3
It's important to me to add: Fo...Comments, PT 3<br />It's important to me to add: For all my complaining about The Cars and Radiohead, I would be *fine* if all 19 nominees were inducted. Especially considering that I could easily come up with a list of 20 more I think are worthy of induction.<br />I wish all the nominees ever nominated would just be inducted already.<br />This winnowing down from nominees to inductees process has some promotional function, I guess, but frankly it's disrespectful bullshit.<br />For all I dislike certain bands, I'm fully aware that millions of people have a different experience than I do, and being a gatekeeper to the Hall is absurd. <br />I may not have a fan's level of respect for the same music which others are fans of, but I respect that that relationship exists, that music by bands that I don't care for impacts their fans that deeply.<br />I wish I had functioned as a gatekeeper as a critic and reviewer, by speaking up about and lifting up music as it's produced or in some retrospective context. I won't contradict that a band has had an actual impact on their fans.<br />(I'm obviously NOT among those who prefer a "small hall".)<br />I felt this was necessary to add, as I'm commenting at this blog for the first time (a google search brought me here, never mind for what) and I don't mean to disrespect anyone else's opinions. Just want to add my own strongly stated ones. Bill Realman Stellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16199821009466468447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-53606087732590934192017-11-17T11:57:13.353-08:002017-11-17T11:57:13.353-08:00Comments Pt. 2:
The Zombies were "short-lived...Comments Pt. 2:<br />The Zombies were "short-lived"? Like, compared to Dire Straits? (Choosing someone who I've established I respect, so you see I mean to compare favorably, not denigrate, anyone.) Just checked myself on their (pretty good) respective Wikipedia pages, and "short-lived" seems like an odd choice to only saddle The Zombies with. Also regarding longevity, just a few years ago they played a live summer festival sponsored by a local *NJ county government*, where the band pulled out unfamiliar songs before a largely general audience, who were more than politely receptive. The Zombies are one of the few bands I've ever seen playing an oldies circuit that pulled out new music - and under-exposed music. And Rod Argent, man, had a respectable career leading Argent too. In fact, if nothing else, the Rock Hall's tradition of acknowledging artists who recorded Rock and Roll anthems gives extra weight to inclusion of The Moody Blues for "I'm Just A Singer (In A Rock and Roll Band)" and of The Zombies for Argent's "God Gave Rock and Roll To You".<br /><br />BTW, in the Rock Hall fan vote, 90% of the time mine were for Judas Priest, The MC5, Moody Blues, The Meters, and The Zombies. Because they have been trailing so far behind in the vote, I'd occasionally replace The Meters with Kate Bush or J. Geils.<br /><br />PS: Add Brian Eno and Laurie Anderson to the list of unacknowledged, unnominated, worthy of consideration for the Rock Hall, much more creative and influential than The Cars, producer-songwriter-performers still out there.<br /><br />PPS: I'm a self-acknowledged Radiohead hater. One of the very few bands I can't resist actively using (wasting) my time to rail against. Preceding and simultaneously with the New Wave, I was a fan of or appreciated numerous great, under-appreciated "progressive" and "experimental" artists and bands who Radiohead fans seem never to have listened to heard of before they heard Radiohead, from the just aforementioned Brian Eno to Be Bop Deluxe. I just don't conclude that the ability of Radiohead fans to simply be ignorant of these many groundbreakers who did everything before Radiohead did is reason enough to credit the band with being "important" nor particularly "original". (Not counting how I am among those who also can't stand the singing.) . I know, I'm very much swimming against a huge tide here. But Radiohead's dismal showing in the current Rock Hall fan vote maybe gives me hope that the band's fans just don't care whether they're in the Hall - and maybe the official voters might reflect that (at least this year). There is a weird kind of memory lapse that their fans suffer from, and an equally weird conformity to their fans all hearing their recordings as art that I can only interpret as massive mob delusion. The fans refuse to hear nor even consider Radiohead in the same context as dozens of "progressive rock" bands those fans despise. But every time I attempt to hear Radiohead I think of all the criminally unpopular bands that tried what they did first. They're a band who've gotten credit for happening to produce decades-old sounds and styles coincidentally when an audience is receptive to them and needed a mythic band to fill an empty space in their lives. It's just wrong to credit them with so much originality.Bill Realman Stellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16199821009466468447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-75895296792767313432017-11-17T11:28:25.953-08:002017-11-17T11:28:25.953-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bill Realman Stellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16199821009466468447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-65870901482252244282017-11-17T11:28:00.386-08:002017-11-17T11:28:00.386-08:00The big issue with The Cars isn't one album th...The big issue with The Cars isn't one album that isn't very good. (100s of artists/bands have suffered that blow). It's that they weren't a very good live band. "Stiff and boring" is an apt term. The one time I saw them was in 1979, they had at least a couple top 20 hits already, and they played a theater (later a "PAC") in Morristown, NJ. Cheap Trick opened for them. Cheap Trick were at their peak, and blew away The Cars at all levels: Not just in general performance quality, but in comparable quality of songs, band interactions, audience connection, and even interest in doing a live show. To this day I recall thinking that The Cars seemed like a cover band of themselves playing a pickup bar, barely able to warm up to their audience, never mind seeming to need to take energy from the audience to warm up to and put energy into the performance of their own hits.<br />I'm at least happy that they aren't being considered for the Hall until after Cheap Trick's induction.<br /><br />Also I'd have to say that The Cars were not very influential so much as they smoothed for general pop audiences and mainstreamed a rougher sound. And I acknowledge their production skills. But with so many unacknowledged, unnominated, much more creative producer-songwriter-performers still out there - Todd Rundgren leaps to mind, XTC, not yet eligible under their own names: Michael Franti and Linda Perry, and so many Hip Hop producer-songwriter-performers soon eligible (OutKast, etc), I think The Cars' popularity because they were good at letting their record company wrap a New Wave label over their modern pop makes them even more "schlockiest" than Journey and Bon Jovi. (At least Jon Bongiovi's good works for local communities mitigates the "schlock".)<br /><br />While I'm commenting: Other major bands with Celtic influence: Jethro Tull. Steeleye Span. <br />I agree with the comment about Kate Bush's immense influence on the artists mentioned. Not sure, but I believe Gaga has acknowledged it. Watching Bush's Saturday Night Live performance from the late 70s(?) recently made me realize how much Bush preceded many kinds of performance and stagecraft, similar to Bowie, but rooted differently.<br /><br />I hear Dire Straits similarly to how I hear Steely Dan. Not AS important as the Dan, but wonderfully well composed songs, beautifully recorded (I think their albums were recognized for engineering excellence) and with touches of jazzy improv. You may not recall how much "Money For Nothing" had multiple impacts, primarily for the "I want my MTV" chorus capturing the zeitgeist of the moment, but also for the "little faggot" lyric stirring controversy. As an out gay man myself, I was not offended by the line: It was clear it was a persona. (And I had to ask a boss of mine to not over reprimand a coworker (not even a friend) for singing along to the lyric on the radio.) (And when I saw DS play a concert in the 90s, "faggot" was missing.) It was a big deal for a long time, creating or contributing to conversations about artistic freedom vs political correctness, appearing in an era when Gay folks were coming out as if we were rare delicate flowers, unlike the current entitled to be oneself era. Those are "intangibles" with an awful lot of "impact".Bill Realman Stellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16199821009466468447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-40783666879884216232017-11-17T10:39:32.208-08:002017-11-17T10:39:32.208-08:00Kanye West is the only other act I can think of th...Kanye West is the only other act I can think of that gives them a run for their money for similar reasons. He could prove to be more important in the long run.AlbumsThatNeverWereFanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07833036291813955838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-18176511464517391022017-11-17T10:38:27.453-08:002017-11-17T10:38:27.453-08:00You put together a pretty good list, but I still c...You put together a pretty good list, but I still can never get behind Radiohead being anywhere but #1. This is without a doubt the most important act since Nirvana. The Bends, OK Computer, Kid A, In Rainbows, whateverthefuckthelastonewascalled...these guys have put together a forward thinking, completely original discography that has been consistently of a high caliber and anybody in the rock world since the 90s that cares even remotely about rock as art has dug their stuff.AlbumsThatNeverWereFanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07833036291813955838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-69606568544471267992017-11-13T13:10:28.352-08:002017-11-13T13:10:28.352-08:00Agreed that Tori Amos is a direct descendant of Ka...Agreed that Tori Amos is a direct descendant of Kate Bush. Also some more modern artists like Florence and The Machine and St. Vincent show a lot of Kate Bush influence. Shrekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07669443710367366769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-82703636521878336772017-11-13T10:11:36.376-08:002017-11-13T10:11:36.376-08:00Florence Welch has been candid about Bush's in...Florence Welch has been candid about Bush's influence on her (might be a good one to induct her if it comes down to it), and whether they've publicly connected the dots or not Lady Gaga, Bjork and even Madonna owe her. Aside from ethereality, she was crafting her own image, standing up to the business and doing things on her own terms before any of them. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11469039885890049319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-41894334905870900612017-11-12T21:28:50.957-08:002017-11-12T21:28:50.957-08:00Red Hot Chili Peppers and Faith No More probably p...Red Hot Chili Peppers and Faith No More probably pioneered nu-metal more than Rage Against the Machine (not to mention the Aerosmith/Run-DMC, Beastie Boys/Slayer, and Public Enemy/Anthrax collaborations), but on the other hand, RHCP were probably too slow to be "metal", and FNM were more cult. RATM might qualify as the first to enter the mainstream who were completely self-contained. No chance they'd be nominated if Tom Morello wasn't on the committee though. That's a genre you don't think they'd want to acknowledge much if they don't acknowledge rap or metal much.<br /><br />Kate Bush would seem to be a main influence on any of the more quieter/low-key/ethereal female singer songwriters of the '90s like Tori Amos, P.J. Harvey, Sarah McLachlan, and so on, but probably less of one on the more in your face, punk or pop oriented types like Liz Phair, Alanis Morissette, or Sheryl Crow... Amos would be the most direct descendant I think.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-73535899498376013902017-11-12T06:28:53.497-08:002017-11-12T06:28:53.497-08:00Good to know! Always learning something. And yea...Good to know! Always learning something. And yeah, this is a bit time consuming. I work a blue-collar job, and the last two times I tried to take a day to work on this, I either had electrical issues with my laptop, or the wifi was out and we had trouble rebooting it. Luckily, once I get started, I pick up steam. Most of this was written (or C&P'd) yesterday.Philiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08292012228944104037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3760137241594753268.post-40396751907143621142017-11-12T05:30:13.013-08:002017-11-12T05:30:13.013-08:00Well done as always--I couldn't even attempt s...Well done as always--I couldn't even attempt something like this. Side note: if the Cars have issues, it would be that the last album, "Door to Door" was an off note artistically and a commercial clunker, and although they were a live draw in their club days, their live shows after their first major tour have a lasting rep as being stiff and boring. Never saw them live, but I hear it from my partner like every day. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11469039885890049319noreply@blogger.com